Episode 2: Leaders vs Managers

Hey everyone! Thanks for listening in to our second episode! We discuss the differences between a leader and a manager, their responsibilities, and the importance of both. This episode is about effective leadership and communication, as well as personal experiences and anecdotes.

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Transcript

Hi, everybody.

I'm Dana Haley and I'm Reginald Ballard and we are Rich People's Business Podcast.

Another great episode.

Thank you for joining us. We are here to talk about management versus leadership.

I think I got that. I think I know the difference between the two. Yeah, because you know, I play football. So leadership deals with the person that the whole team looks up to, the whole team looks up to the leader. So even the, the like the management even looks up to leader because the leader gives all the play, all the plans and look, this is what we gonna do. We're gonna go out there and we're gonna take care of this business. We're gonna bust their and then we're gonna come back in

here and celebrate bus fares. You know what? Yeah, that's right. And come back. So the leader, everybody follows the leader. You follow a leader, you know, you, you consult with a manager, you don't follow a manager, you follow a leader and that's what leadership means. It means that people look up to you. People expect you to carry the team, they expect you to get them out of fixes.

They expect you to make sure that their lives can run a lot smoother and the manager carries the vision of the leader.

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, because the manager has to make sure that everybody knows what the leader plan is.

Yeah, the vision, the, the leader is the visionary. They are the one that sets the tone of the company culture, or the team culture, whatever that whatever scenario it is and the the leader carries it out.

They they set the tone for many, for many different organizations, the leader, the leader, the leader carries it out and the manager Now, now the the leader can also be a manager.

I don't know what OK. Two take, OK, you're looking at it from the business standpoint, I'm looking at it from say the entertainment business. OK? Even though it's a business standpoint, but say for instance, the manager makes sure that the actor who is the leader, makes sure the actor hold up.

Let me see real quick. Hold up. All right, the manager makes sure that he can, he contacts the agent. So to make sure that the agent on top of the business of the actor, make sure that the, the actor, you know, gets the right auditions, make sure the, the, the, the the actor signs the contract.

But isn't it ultimately, isn't it? Ultimately the man, the whoever controls your image whoever controls the essence of the business of Reginald. Isn't that your leadership?

Well, no, I'm the leader. I would be the leader. They would be like you say, the manager because they making sure that I get the proper necessities that I need. OK. But can I ask you something?

So, I'm a, I'm an old, I'm an old movie buff. And so I've been watching these these specials on TV, since I was little. And it would always talk about, I know back in the day they had this whole machine behind act, it was this whole thing where they told you, they sent you to classes, they told you how to, how to walk, how to, how to exist, who to go out on dates with in public. So it was this whole big thing. So to me, there was the machine like Paramount, they used to own, basically own

contracts for actors. So then Paramount would basically be the leader of that, of that principle. You would be the principal back in the old days, you would be the principal. You would be the principal and they would be the leader of your career. How the public saw you if you were in 19 thirties, how the public saw you and you would basically be under their tutelage and their in their direction.

Well, I believe that this machine that you, that you referred to is after it's all said and done, they always or the whole machine have to come back and check with the manager. Make sure the manager, OK, look, you're on board and the manager is that one avenue to the leader, which is the actor, you understand? So that's what I believe. I believe the the machine reports to the manager, the manager report to the leader, which is the actor.

So you know, we talking about the difference between the two. So that means the leader don't have to deal with all that other stuff. The leader, the leader has to stay focused so that everybody else can so that it is a machine and that is a manager to help that leader out.

I think that only matters if you're Brad Pitt.

I think when you are, you went to the same school, you know, the the brat.

But I mean, isn't that only if you have garnered the power to then to then be a leader, you have to prove yourself in that to have that power to do so. So until that time, it's the powers that be the leadership that garner.

That's a good point. That's a good point.

That's a good point because sometimes people are coming in and they thinking that they're going, this is who I want to be, even musicians that walk in. They say this is who I want to be. This is the music I want to do like you you hear Pink story where Pink said that she started doing R and B because I think she got signed to LA face in the beginning and she had to do music that wasn't in her soul. And so she, she couldn't be the leader at that point. She had to be led.

So they got to garner the, the, the opportunity to become the leader. So manager don't have that manager have to do that.

No, the manager just I think executes what the leader is putting down.

So in business wise, in business wise, would you be considered, you know, since you own your own business, would you be considered the manager or the leader of both?

Very unfortunate. But at this very moment, I'm, I'm both. I'm the leader, I'm the manager and I am the worker.

I am the all night, first shift, second shift, third shift, I'm all of it.

So they gotta come check you. It's like my manager checks with me before she makes any deals. So she come to me and say, you know, somebody wanted to do, wanna do a show with you. How much would you want? And I say this and she always give me something on top of that. She always say, OK, you tell them this. I if I tell him 9000, she said, OK, I'm gonna tell him 10 5. So, but she have to check with me first. So you have to check with the leader first.

So the as you, you are both. So that mean you have a whole lot of responsibility, everybody hitting you here, here, here here, boom, boom. So that's why it's good to have a manager. So that, you know, if you're the owner of a company, you don't have to be dealing with everybody all at one time, you deal with that one manager, that one manager, you have to deal with everybody, right?

Because I have to say so I have to say that at this very moment, I am not happy with how my office is set up. It's, it's temporary, but the ideal situation is to have, you know, there's leadership and there's, there's me, I am, I am current leadership and then to have someone to assist, to carry out the company culture and my vision which would be a manager and you know, we're, we're working on that and we're perfecting that.

That is ideal. because I I think to make it a business run and to make it efficient, there has to be hierarchies so that people understand and have somebody there steadily sharing the vision and making sure, you know, because me as the leader, I'm, I have my hands in a lot of different things and so I can't always be there, but my vision needs to be carried out.

So I need someone that really understands what I wanna accomplish. And you right now as this, as, the leader, you have to speak with your management to share what you want, what you want to, to accomplish. Right?

See people call my manager first before they, they wouldn't even call me. But you know, I'm gonna tell you another thing is, a, a good example. what's the guy? oh, sure, man. Jerry Jones, the, the general, he's, of Dallas Cowboys, the owner, he's a general manager and the owner. So he deals with all that stuff. The general managers did. Every other team had general managers.

He that is Cowboys and have general manager then. Now you see how the Cowboys haven't been going far because of it. I believe, I believe he should hire a general manager to take over the, you know, the football operations and he just, you know, you know, he, he, the man who writes the checks but you wanna, you wanna have your hand in everything.

So it is hard to do like, and, and you, yes, I, I will tell you this.

I think the, the first time I realized this was the, aha moment in my business that I learned early on when I realized I didn't have to be the smartest person in the room. I just had to hire people smarter than me. I think that was the day I was able to breathe and grow, you know, I think small businesses. We fall, we have many pitfalls, we have many challenges to overcome.

But the biggest one was, yeah, I knew I needed a manager early on and I wanted it because I didn't want to micromanage people. I wanted to share the vision and have people do their jobs. But you know, being able to afford what you need is a whole different dynamic. So, I understood early on that I didn't have to be the smartest person. I didn't have to have my hand in everything. I just had to share the vision and, and align myself with people who were smarter than me.

and, or, or had different talents that I did that could execute the old overall goal for the overall success of the team. Right. Right. Right. And, and, and that's, you know, that's, I think where we are, where we are as a team right now, we're growing and we still have that dynamic to, to attain, but we're getting there.

So, is it important to have both? Is it important to have a manager and to have a leader?

Yes, you, I think you have to because it's just, it just goes to your point, Jerry Jones. OK. So he's doing, he's doing too much. I will tell you this at this very moment and at different times sometimes it's not as bad, but I, I can be stretched. You know, I'm up sending emails at one o'clock. I know people probably think I'm a man and I am, I'm crazy.

I'm going crazy. I don't know if I'm going or coming and you will hear me talk about ad D I have ad D, it is something that I will, I will speak on through this podcast in many different ways because I think it affects how I work. I'm in the office and I, I tell my team all the time, ok? If each one of y'all come up to me five times a day and you ask me a question, then that means that's what 45 touches a day where I'm, I can't sit there and focus on my work because I'm already easily distracted.

But I want to be there for my team and I want to support them and I want them to feel like I have an open door policy where they can come to me. and some of them are still training and I want them to understand the vision, but then it does leave me depleted and draining. So sometimes I'm working at night to give them, give them what they need, during the day and

then give me what I need, which is my sanity and understanding where the business is, at night, reading through emails. So it, you know, it has its, it has its disadvantages. Absolutely.

,

it has, it is very beneficial for me because I don't have to go out and search for auditions, you know, my agent does that, I don't have to, you know, worry about, you know, when, when contracts come, come about, you know, my manager, my agent, both of them take care of that at the same time, you know. So my manager will call me and say, look, let's do this and let's do that. Just call your agents and to make sure they're on board.

So I don't have to do nothing but deal with, you know, one or two people at a time. So I don't have to just, you know, just be scrambled everywhere, just pulled in all different directions because I have somebody else doing that for me. They're looking out exactly looking out. So I would say, ok, let me ask you this. Would you rather be a leader or would you rather be a manager?

Oh, I think I'm a born leader.

I, I'm not saying that I'm not saying I like the way you said that. Oh, I think I'm a born leader and, and you know what?

And, and not because I, I have an, I'm so smart or I'm this or I'm that it's mainly because I like to influence other people for the betterment. You know, I love everybody to be around me to be happy to feel intentionally loved or cared for. my office is one that I care about their families who they are as, as individuals and so to, to just be mechanically you know, pushing a vision, I don't think that I would be happy in just that way because I really want

to influence people for their betterment, which is why we're here. The whole reason why we're doing the, the, the podcast is I want to show different ways of doing things.

So, so a leader is influential. So a leader. Yeah, there you go. So it's more than, more than a manager wouldn't be influential.

A manager just there to make sure that the, the leader is satisfied and that the, and that the team is satisfied too.

I think the biggest thing for me. I think the biggest thing for me is I look at my managers because I do have, I do have, I'm training managers now. They're, you know, we have a new staff and we're training managers. But you know, we talk about how to help them implement leadership qualities and how they manage because I still think you need leadership qualities. You have to influence. People don't follow people that don't care about them. You have to care about your team, you have to

care about what is important to them. Everybody in, I think everybody in my office is there for a different reason. Some people are there for a paycheck. Some people are there from the, the camaraderie. Some people like their job, they're, they're passionate about you know what they do? Everybody is there for a different reason and it is up to a good leader to understand and to, and to answer your team, your team's needs who the best leader, you know?

Oh, oh, my gosh.

That's a good question. who is the best leader? I know. I, I don't know. I don't think, I, I don't think I have somebody that, no, no, I will tell you, I don't think that I have somebody at this very moment that has inspired me. I do like I do for some, for a few reasons. I do like, Steve Jobs. I like something that he said. He said that you hire people for passion, you don't, skill can be taught in many instances, but you hire for passion and that's something that I've kept at the forefront

because I want people who are passionate and have some, some ideas of, how to lead their own life and what they want out of their life because I think it drives it. You have to have a driver, you know, something that drives you to be better. And I think everybody, you know, in my office there's a lot of diversity, there's a lot of diverse thinkers. you have, you know, just inclusivity and diversity in many different ways because there's a lot of, there's a lot of things to, to, to touch

when you're talking about marketing I have a marketing company and you, and you want to engage in the differences of different of, of each other and you want to celebrate that. So I think Steve Jobs did that in the way that he looked at bringing people on that in, in general just had that passion.

And, and inclusivity, you're a very innovative man.

And I would say, you know, the two, my two favorite leaders that I see have led, you know, I would say Michael Jordan and lebron James. And it's funny because the two, the two diff the two leaders did it different ways. Like Jordan led his team to six championships and he was the man that, that did it basically, I mean, Dennis Rodman helped and help. He couldn't have done it without them. But lebron, on the other hand, his leadership, he made unknowns better and famous when he left.

You never heard from him, you know, again, you know, Eric Snow and, and Damon Jones, you know, all them cats. So to me, I think those are two great leaders because they both led teams to the NBA championships. Now, the best leader of all of them all was Bill Russell because Bill Russell led his team to 11 championships to as a player coach, that's a leader right there. That's a leader that did it consistently all the time.

Any time that, that, that, you know, they needed, leadership to pump them up to the next level as I say, what do you think made him a good leader though?

What was it? Because he had to, there had to be something in him that, that got him to that place. What do you think it was?

You know, I believe his, his, his, his fortitude, his, his, his attitude, his, willingness to, go all out, his, his willingness to hurt to bleed to, to, to put it out online. I remember I had a, I had a coach man. Coach Jerry Jones drones up in, Galveston, Texas and this guy, you know, all other coach used to scream holler cuss, you know, say thing, he never cursed.

I never heard him curse but you feared him more because his leadership was on the way of like, hey, if he did use a word like that, you know, you really messed up. I mean, just sometimes you could a person, you know, I, I think a good leader really don't have to say much a real, a real good leader. Just sit back and know he has his coach. Yeah, he's like coach another, another coach.

Now I, I'm, I'm, I'm using on a sports thing. Another coach, he taught us how to organize and track me. So he, we come to attract, me, he go into stands, we knew how to, we knew when we were supposed to run. We knew how to put our marks down. He knew everything because he led us to do that. So I think a good leader, you know, a lot of times you don't even have to need him.

It's, yeah, you, you don't need a good leader.

You don't, you don't, you, you need to talk to them. I mean, the, the pre and they already didn't set you up so well that, you know, it's like a, it's, it's like, like Bruce Lee said, I do not hit, it, hit all by itself.

But you know what? I think that's such a good point because I could use that, that same theory. And I always aspire to be, to be better. I read books. I listen to books. It's it's something inside of me, there's a burning desire to be a better leader because I think that, you know, the world is changing and the world is growing. So we should always be evolving and looking at how we're touching others and the dynamic that that we bring when we walk into a room.

You know, if it is one where we deflate the room, because I think people don't realize, I think owners who are not leaders don't realize that their people are their greatest asset, their team that supports them, but no one wants to support someone that they don't believe in.

And, and, and I feel like, you know what, this is the best compliment to a leader. When you, when you have a room that's in chaos, we got no, we gotta do it. And the leader walk in and everybody like because they know that this man is gonna make all that chaos go away because what he have right here, everybody is, they, they are confident that this man is gonna bring peace and a solution to the problem. Yeah, that's the best compliment I think.

You know what that is so well said, because I think that's what we strive for, you know, with all the books that I listen to and all the books that I read. I think that at the end of the, of it all, you know, I want to have the greatest amount of empathy for the people that come to fight. They put, they put their armor on every day and they come to battle because I'll tell you something, having a small business.

It is no, two days are alike. You know, we have to work hard, we have to put on different hats. we have to, you know, be in a small setting where we are tolerating and finding ways to love each other. You know, I think it's really, really important, to, to, to grow and to help them to grow. And, you know, I think that's a big thing and, and how I engage my team.

I'm always trying to, we, I'm always trying to have a conversation about communication. Because you all, you know, you know, I read somewhere a long time ago that said the hardest thing about being a leader is being an employer.

If you're an entrepreneur, you see a conversation about what?

So we have, we have conversations about communication. No, no, no, no, no, we have conversations because because what I mean is some people in the office, you know, we don't, we don't always know how to engage each other. We don't know how to talk to each other. Some people are active listening and then they're waiting, waiting to respond or they're, they're interrupting each other.

So we have conversations about how we communicate and then the lack of positive communication and just how to get to the other side of the respect factor in communication, respecting what the other person has to say if you're listening because the more people you get in your office and your dynamic, the harder sometimes that can be, you know, we're all adults and everybody has their own ideas and their own views about how things should go.

And so we, we want to make sure that everybody is heard and sometimes and everybody is validated and sometimes it's not so easy. So me, me as a leader who is also trying to do her own thing to get better. It it, it becomes, it becomes a struggle sometimes. But I think the end all goal is to always be working on. a peaceful surrounding that everybody can get something from and grow from.

So we, we listen, we listen, sometimes we listen to, books podcast together and we have conversations how we can get better. we have right now we're some of our leaders in the office or managers in the office were going to start reading leadership books, doing some workbooks. And I think that's helpful too.

So you wanna have your managers be leaders too?

I do, I want them to have leadership qualities because otherwise, you know, they're not going to be able to carry out. my vision and my vision is that I want us to help people grow. I want the people that come in to help us grow too. It's a open, it's a, it's an open sliding open door, it swings both ways. We all have to learn from each other. And, and I remember my, my mentor, Charles Harman, he said, said that when you hire people, you want to hire people that as closely as possible are

extensions of yourself. You want them to have their own ideas, but you want them to be good people. If I care about people, you want people that care about people. You know, if you care how you serve others, how you engage others, you want people who have that same, who embody that same dynamic. And so, I think for, for me, yeah, I definitely want my managers to have leadership quality.

Well, what's a boss? Manager leader, boss?

No, I don't like that word. That word makes me uncomfortable. But I guess, you know, I think you have bosses that are just appointed, they're appointed, they're not necessarily, you know, they're not necessarily leaders, they're appointed. I, you know, I, people I, I get called a boss, all the time and I, and I don't know if I look at it as a positive, I'd rather be a, a leader, you know, just a great, a great leader. That's what I strive for.

I'm, I'm decent but that's, that's, that's, that's, that's where we are.

I think, you know, we would all want to be leaders. I mean, even though you are a manager, a manager still at the end of the day, you want to be a leader, he want to be able to lead a team of people in the direction that they want to go, you know. So that's what I think a manager, you know, they would try to do that too.

My manager always trying to get me and my writer to, you know, get to that, that level where we can get our own TV. Show now, that's what we're working on right now. So she, you know, she thinks she's a leader but

she thinks she's the leader. But wait a minute, but don't you think it's ok for her?

That's ok. I, I love it. I love it. She, she works hard, you know, Judy, that's my lady. She works hard and, she makes sure that, I'm happy with, you know, when we talk about, you know, finances and money and, you know, what, what I should get paid. She is right on point. So I, I, I like that, that, that she, you know, feel that look, I'm, I'm gonna step out in front and be the, you know, the, the, the face of what you are trying to do.

But shouldn't she also? And this is just my thinking, shouldn't she also be advising you?

Oh, yes, she does all the time. I mean, you know, even, even when I bring scripts to her, even, you know, the, the ones that we, we've, we've written and she always goes over it and say, OK, I think this, this should be changed right here. I don't think people would get this. I don't think they would understand this. I don't, I, I think this is not politically correct and blah, blah, blah.

So, yeah, she, she, she's, she, she's, she have a lot, she have a lot of say so at a time I remember there was a time when you had a lot of handlers.

Oh yeah, you had a lot of handles. You had a lot of people, what was it about that dynamic that you liked or you didn't like?

Well, I like, you know, I like the, I like the idea of because some, some people don't even need managers. They just depend solely on their agents. But I like the idea of, of a manager being, you know, overseeing the agency so that, you know, sometimes you can slip through the cracks. But especially, you know, when I was at William Morris, you remember when I was at William Morris agency, it's like, you know, you, you, you like a, a small person in a big pond so your manager stays on top

of a bigger agent and say, hey, look, this is what I think we should do for him. I've seen something that I think he should go out, out for something that he should read for and they would stay on top of the man of the agents and the agent. Ok, cool. Well, not since you brought this to my attention, I'm gonna make that happen.

OK. So where was there a time? We need a little t so where was there a time where that didn't work out?

So well. Yeah. Well, did Martin, you know, you, you stepped in as my manager and you know, we got the deal that I wanted. So, you know, I, I I was surprised how you did it because you ain't never did managing. You never did that.

But we went there and that's one of my favorite stories I think, I think in my entire career, that's one of my best stories ever. So we'll definitely tell that story, how, how broad man probably wouldn't have been, man.

As long as it, as long as he did if it wasn't for this good right here.

Well, you know, it's a Texas thing.

That's good.

Thanks. You guys. We are so happy that you joined us again for another Rich People's Business podcast episode.

I am Dana Haley and I'm Reginald Ballard. Check us out on Facebook, tiktok, youtube and Twitter and on tiktok, we are rich people's being.

That's right.

And we are getting ready to start bringing in some real guests to talk about real, how to get real rich, not just our rich, rich, rich, rich.

Thanks to you guys. We are so happy that you joined us and we will see you next time.